and two, perhaps pushing wound after wound on the economy is really not what folks sent us here to do. >> and ryan, the funny thing about this, this can end up being perceived as some sort of republican cave when they never should have taken a party position against raising the debt ceiling in the first place. so that doing the rational thing could actually simply look rational when they chose to do it. >> right, exactly. they -- if they had never made a big deal about this to begin with then they wouldn't be in this situation. now, obama kind of aided and abetted them because he wanted it to be the debt ceiling leverage that he kind of wanted this grand bargain in 2011. that never happened. since then, he has been consistent saying i am not going to mess around with the debt ceiling anymore. and good for him on that, you're right. as newt gingrich said, wisely and moderately and reasonably, he said don't pick this fight because you're going to lose it. don't create a national crisis around this that will only wind up with you caving. so just do it quietly, early, the sooner you do it